Spring 2008

Dear PJ: I lived in Korea when you wrote your 'Holidays in Hell' book and it seems that China is just going through the exact same thing as Korea at that time, just on a bigger scale and in a mirror image.

Posted by camuirhead | May 19, 2008 5:12:28 AM EDT

Dear Mr. O'Rourke, As a democracy practitioner, I fundamentally disagree with your idea that "Freedom and democracy are abstract. Daily life is concrete." As a Taiwanese American, I've been fortunate to live through the changes to daily life that have occurred as a result of political opening. And they undoubtedly have an indelible and concrete impact. From having to pay fewer (to no) bribes, to being able to freely organize, to a proliferation of political talk shows, I think one of the central issues that people forget is that your nation's political culture materially affects your personal life. Most of the examples you gave show a clear misunderstanding of basic democratic principles, from the idea that rule of law allows you to throw someone down the stairs, or that the party is the highest authority (if that was indeed the speaker's intention of suggesting that this should be the case). These distortions in democratic governance cause a great many of the issues that China is dealing with right now, like corruption and pollution that arises from having effective checks and balances from both internal government bodies, as well as independent NGOs (which is one group I noticed you did not speak to, if it was even possible). It would have been nice for you to have taken a more critical eye towards relating the political and theoretical to ordinary everyday life. As such, your anecdotes, while enlightening and interesting, struck me at least as lacking that extra step that comes with good analysis.

Posted by Chengora | May 19, 2008 11:32:02 AM EDT

I enjoyed your article a lot. I have just returned from a year in China. I saw all that you saw and more. I wonder if you had the opportunity to see the masses of people who were still living, even in the cities, in really poor conditions and on meager incomes? I met lots and lots of those. Recent graduates of University (which is really had to get into but then an easy slide out) who were working in stores 60 and 70 hours a week making really poor wages and having to live in shared accommodations,6 or 10 to an apartment. It's still quite a struggle to live in China for the most of them, city or country side. But I did enjoy your perspective and all.

Posted by Diane | May 19, 2008 2:10:18 PM EDT

Hey PJ. Always a pleasure. I've spent quite of bit of time in and around Shanghai over the last few years and the big question for China, Karl Marx, and Deng Xiao Ping, is whether a free-ish market will actually produce freedom. I guess we're still waiting to see whether that's true for everyone here at home. hiho Mark

Posted by Mpeterson | May 20, 2008 12:12:53 AM EDT

A very interesting and down to earth honest piece of good writing.As you observed abstract is for the theorizers and academics.A functioning democracy needs ideally to be inclusive and invariably it is not.In most democracies the ruling government has not won a majority of the popular votes and yet survives despite protest marches and media bashes.In a country like China the success story is due to the genetically ingrained Confucian attitudes about life and the innate ability to live life that is coming their way.Any western notion about another revolution in China due to increasing income disparities or political awakening of the abstract kind is not even a remote possibility.Chinese have learned to live well in a capitalistic and totalitarian times.It may not be true of other developing nations that still suffer from the abstracts like religion,politics,freedom of unrestricted attitudes and social conduct.

Posted by subrashankar | May 20, 2008 8:29:25 AM EDT

Love the anecdotes about modern Chinese life. But wow - having read Chang & Halliday, it's simply amazing how little the Chinese know about their own history. On the other hand, the Maoist myths they still believe are perfectly mirrored in what Chang & Halliday's analysis would have predicted that they would believe.

Posted by Lucius Vorenus | June 4, 2008 12:45:38 PM EDT

Love the anecdotes and, as always, very entertaining. It seems the politics in China is indeed "sleeping", but then it has sometimes been a black box and who knows what will emerge. A question for subrashankar who states, "Chinese have learned to live well in a capitalistic and totalitarian times." How "well" have they lived? Reading Chang and Halliday and others, it seems some survive and others do not. Let's hope a new chapter will emerge with a respect for humanity and freedom. (same goes for the west.)

Posted by Lucius Vorenus | June 8, 2008 10:48 AM EDT