comments (Jan/Feb 2010)

This is really for Aristotelis who has let his understandable indignation at US interference in Greek affairs lead him to a misunderstanding (I think) of Mr. Wheatcroft's point: the US 'example' Wheatcroft is talking of has nothing to do with US government actions, more to do with the real presence of America - the undeniable personal freedoms enjoyed by its citizens, the peaceful nature of its political process, and it's (past) prosperity. These things spoke as it were constantly, during the Cold War, whilst the anti-democratic contradictions inherent in America's foreign policy reveal themselves but sporadically. In effect what Wheatcroft is saying - in his contrast of 'example' and 'force' - is that the efforts expended by the US in suppressing 'leftist' governments were a waste of time and that the simple fact of America was enough, in the end, plus the USSR's own economic ineptitude, to bring down the Soviet Union. In other words, he's saying that Lenin's state finally collapsed under its own weight and the existence of a powerful counter-model. I don't know if I totally buy the argument - he would have to explain away the effect of US meddling in Soviet-dominated Afghanistan before it could really establish itself in my mind - but it certainly has validity.

Posted by Hamish Robertson | February 22, 2010 4:20 PM EST

Geoffrey Wheatcroft wrote, "It was by example, not precept, let alone force, that European Communism was defeated. Is it really impossible to apply the same principle elsewhere?" And here I was all this time thinking that the US "defeated" (or rather, "violently subdued") the Left in Europe with tactics such as "Operation Gladio", the funding of the "Parade of Colonels" during Greece's dictatorship and the like. Geoffrey, I admire and respect aspects of your critique, but, please, don't tell us Europeans that "It was by example, not precept, let alone force, that European Communism was defeated." Unless you're saying that funding, supporting and collaborating with murderous European right wing military juntas and governments while overthrowing democratically elected "leftist" governments and violently nipping anything "leftist" in the bud was how the US "defeated European communism by example and not by force". Or don't you know that European "communism" was very much active in Greece, Italy and other countries as well? Call a spade a spade and admit, "It was also by the destruction of European democracies, the disregarding of their sovereignty and the funding of military juntas and various autocratic regimes that European Communism was defeated." For example, when Greeks were about to vote in a leftist (not "communist") government in 1967, the US funded and backed the Papadopoulos dictatorship which abolished the Constitution and promptly hunted down any and all Greek "communists" and either assassinated them, tortured them to death or tortured them and sent them to exile on barren islands. But then again, if you want to keep claiming that European communism was defeated "not by force but by example", if it makes you feel better about the US' past, go right ahead. Just don't bother saying it to Europeans because 1) many will laugh right in your face and 2) it's not helping the US today. Admit that you defeated communism in Europe by violently subverting the sovereignty of European democracies at the slightest whiff of "leftism" and we Europeans are content to leave it in the past and continue friendly commerce etc. Don't insult us with your aforementioned statement because US subversion of Greek sovereignty and democracy during the 50s, 60s and 70s deeply and violently affected our lives. I wonder, do you think Greek anti-Americanism has anything to do with US support of the Papadopoulos dictatorship? Or is our anti-Americanism inexplicable, seeing as how you defeated "communism by example and not force?" Are we Greeks anti-American because we hate you for your freedom and lifestyle or because the US helped destroy our democracy, our constitution, our lives while you, today, STILL go on about how you led "by example and not by force?" It's never too late to admit your past monstrosities and who knows, it might just earn you respect you would otherwise never gain by insulting our intelligence to this day.

Posted by Aristotelis | February 1, 2010 8:47 AM EST

America will never adopt a sane and rational foriegn policy. Why? Because deep down in their heart of hearts (if you think Americans have hearts) Americans feel that they are entitled to be lord and master of the world. Empires only die when they crash from the weight of their own corruption and over- extension. So shall it be with the U.S.A.

Posted by REED RICHARDS | January 29, 2010 10:06 PM EST